Point - Counter Point with Buckeye John

Today's post will encompass an email exchange between myself (BigHouse Bob) and Buckeye John. The topics are The Big Ten's perception nationally and the recruitment of Terellle Pryor.

BHB: Buckeye John what are your thoughts about the Big Ten perception nationally after the National Championship game, the Rose Bowl, and Michigan's trouble with App. State and the Ducks this year?

BJ: Why should I care what the national perception is of the Big-10 vis-a-vis
Ohio State? The fact that Ohio State has played in the last two national championships is enough for me. Like I said in my last post to your blog, I'm perfectly happy beating Michigan and getting the opportunity to play for the NC as compared to the alternatives. Namely, losing to Michigan and playing in the Alamo Bowl. The Buckeyes are firmly established at the very highest levels of college football. What more can any team ask for? I will never stoop to the point where a season/team is a lost cause if they don't win the NC. Ohio State is doing more than anyone in the Big-10 to promote the conference's quality of play. Only one team can win the NC each year. At least the Buckeyes are getting the chance to do that. They have one of the highest winning percentages of the century and have played for three NCs. Why don't any of the Michigan blogs (yours included) critically point the finger at Michigan's role in the negative national perception? Why always look to Ohio State? I respect Michigan a lot but their chronic underachieving year-in and year-out hurts the national perception way more than OSU losing in the NC game...IMO. When Ohio State was winning all those Fiesta Bowl games and Michigan was busy losing Rose Bowls there wasn't anything being said about the Buckeyes. If you want to start looking for ways to beef up the conferences image....go look at Iowa, MSU, Penn State and Wisconsin. I've never heard/read anyone pointing the finger at those teams. If those teams could elevate their play to the level of OSU and to some degree Michigan, we wouldn't have to defend ourselves.

BHB: I think Michigan has a lot to do with the perception problem. USC, App.
State, Oregon, all put the state of the Big Ten back. The other Big Ten teams you mention haven't done anything worth while in 10 years which doesn't help either. PSU was a power before they joined the Big Ten and now there not much more then a middle of the road Big Ten team. I have and will continue to mentioned that in my Blog.

Here are my thoughts on the whole Big Ten perception problem. We now live in a world where people have a playoff mentality even though the bowl system is still alive. Let me give you a couple of examples: Does anyone really care who wins the Big Ten in Basketball? Nope. Just the Final 4 and National Championship (more people will remember maybe the Big Ten Basketball Tournament champ)

Do the NY Giants care if they were NFC EAST champs right now? Nope

I believe the Big Ten Football title has become something similar. Now,
I'm not saying it's not important to the Michigan's and OSU's, I just believe it's not very important nationally. Back in the Bo and Woody days, the Big Ten Championship is all that mattered, the freaking pre-seasons games really didn't matter (it was a step above the NFL pre-season). Rose Bowl or die. The perception nationally now is that the Big Ten Champ is just a stepping stone to the National Title or a BCS Bowl game and yes every game matters.
That is why Michigan and OSU and everyone else plays one (maybe) difficult non-conference game a year. It's all about that Crystal Football.

BHB: How do you feel about last years Ohio State team and how do you compare the Big Ten to other conferences?

BJ: Last year was a fluke. OSU wasn't supposed to be playing in New Orleans.
Michigan WAS!!!! Nobody saw OSU coming. If the voters and pundits were so very much against the Buckeyes than why the f*** did they rank then in the top 2 at the end of the year? Like I said in the post to your blog, I would totally agree that several teams (USC and Georgia come to mind after dominating performances in their bowl games) had equal claim to playing in the NC game. However, those two teams did not take care of business like they should have and did not have a better claim than OSU. (BTW - it's pretty easy for those two teams to start yelling after their bowl games....what would have happened if one or both of them had lost?) Two years ago, the Buckeye were the unquestioned top team in the nation but got drilled by Florida. Why is that worse than USC (which was touted by everyone as having one the best teams ever) getting beat by Stanford (AT HOME) and oh....by the way....losing to Oregon too. Why isn't everyone asking what's wrong with the Pac-10? That conference, top to bottom, sucks!!! The Big-10 is way better than that league. So, the SEC plays a different brand of football. Who cares? Should the Big-10 try to change their entire philosophy for playing Div I football? We will never be able to recruit (as a conference top to bottom) the quantity of SEC type players that play in that league. This is simply because a vast majority of those players come from the South and would rather play for competitive teams from the region than play for competitive teams in the mid-west or out west. Ohio State is making the best of the flawed system forced on schools, teams and fans. If the NCAA and the money hungry universities would get over themselves and create the only fair way to determine the NC we wouldn't be having this conversation. Everyone needs to stop blaming OSU for the system's failure.

BHB: I agree that the system is flawed and that the Pac 10 isn't very good but my concern is how the Big Ten is looking nationally when we fail in the BCS and Title Games year after year. Michigan gets whipped in the Rose last year and follows up with App. State and Oregon (they did have a nice win against Florida in the Citrus!), Illinois had no business being in the Rose this year and they looked like it, and OSU losing the last two NC games.

I think your feelings are very similar to other OSU fans, I just don't think beating Michigan getting the Big Ten and laying an egg in the national championship game is good enough anymore. Is it a good year? sure. Do I think they should ride Tressel out of town? Not at all. (unless you want to).

Yes, the wins in the rivalry means a lot and in a year when both teams suck and one goes to the Outback and the other Alamo. Then yes it's the only thing that matters. If the Big Ten continues to have below average years, here is what might happen:

Next Year:
OSU loses one game all year (USC on the road), the Big Ten is full of 3-6 loss teams (either not ranked or low in the ranks).

Oklahoma goes undefeated and has a spot in the NC game.

West Virginia and Georgia also have one loss at the end of the year. Do
you think OSU plays in the NC game next year?

I think they don't because the voters will say the Big Ten is down and OSU
has been there two years in a row. Not fair is it?

I hate the system and don't agree that the Big Ten is a step below the other conferences, but I think we also have to recognize as a league that Perception is Reality and if we don't start winning Big Non-Conference games, BCS Bowls and National Titles the Big Ten is going to take credibility hits nationally.

BHB: Let's change subjects: What are your thoughts on Terrelle Pryor's recruitment and the allegations that have been floating around the Internet that OSU might have some recruiting violations?

BJ: The entire Pryor saga is starting to bore me. The rumors flying around
change every hour. He's visiting here, there....Oregon.....LSU....or not.
I'm not paying too much attention to the Corvette - Sarniak story because I
don't think it will amount to anything. At first it was breaking news
and now it's turning into "Tressel" and "the program" are dirty which I find
totally ridiculous. The OSU program is no more or less "dirty" than any
other major program out there. Kids get in trouble with the law at every school. Kids get approached by boosters and other fans at every school. Kids experience issues with academic performance at every school. When Michigan blogs or WVU blogs or Penn St blogs start pointing the finger.....it smells of desperation.

I've been following Pryor since last year when he first added OSU to his list of schools. I thought it was pretty cool that he was considering OSU. When the 2008 class started coming together so quickly at the beginning of the season it was fun to think about adding Pryor to the group. At this point, I'm totally happy with the class OSU has put together. We'll end up near the top or the rankings with or without him.

We'll challenge for another Big-10 title (maybe even a national title) with or without him. I will admit to taking the situation more serious when he added UM to his list when they hired Rodriguez. But, he wasn't totally committed to WVU when Rodriguez was there (and better prepared to run the "read-option" offense than UM will be) so I didn't leap to the immediate conclusion that UM was in "the lead" after they hired him. I really think that if Pryor wants to be a NFL QB he needs to be in a system that is not entirely "read-option" oriented. Pat White and Dennis Dixon run/ran that offense better than anyone and neither of them are even remotely considered NFL (QB) type talent. Tressel can point to the system that he ran with Troy Smith (balanced running, passing, using the spread...etc) as evidence that Pryor's talents can be used effectively, he will win and he can be considered a "pro style" QB. If Rodriguez is totally committed to using the exact same offense at UM that he did at WVU I think that will turn Pryor off. Now, I would totally expect Rodriguez to tell Pryor that he would be willing to change the offense (away from "read-option.....more towards "spread") to take advantage of Pryor's multiple skills as well as help him on his way to the NFL. He would be dumb to say anything other than that.

So....what's the bottom line? If he goes to Ohio State, he will not be the starter this year. I would expect that Tressel would use him as the "change of pace" QB during every game (like Florida did with Leak and Tebow) to get him as much game experience as possible and then he could start the following year and beyond. Since most of the team returns and
the incoming class is so strong I think he has the best chance to play and win at Ohio State. If he chooses Michigan he will probably be the starting QB from day 1. With Michigan losing players to graduation and early entry to the NFL it's going to be a tough year. He will struggle (probably much like Henne did a few years ago) as the starter but will only get better as the year goes on. I'm pretty sure Rodriguez has already promised him changes to the offense to better use his skills. Oregon is a long shot. I don't think he really wants to play that far away. Not sure if he's going to visit LSU. They would have a strong case but he'd be behind Perilloux for a few seasons. Not sure he'd be willing to wait that long to play. I'll say he signs with OSU on NLOID. If the stories about the Corvette prove to be true.......you can have him.

BHB: Your make some valid points. Things like this happen at every program. I
also think that players are dumb and money hungry. Look at what is going on with Reggie Bush right now. If the NCAA makes him ineligible he could lose the Heisman and USC the National Championship.

I agree the Pryor saga continues to roll on. I wouldn't call OSU dirty, what I would classify coaches like Tressel and Rodriguez as using poor judgment in certain areas. I'm not saying this happened, but if Tressel did meet with Sarniak, he needs to understand the he is in a no win situation if it becomes public. If Pryor goes to OSU then it looks bad, if he doesn't it's because the meeting became public. It's a no win situation and coaches need to stay clear of all that business. Recruit the kids, talk to their parents and let the other stuff be. I hate to say this but "they need to be as clean as Lloyd Carr" in these type of situations.

I put RR right there with any top coach trying to land top talent and using
poor judgment. For example telling Pryor he was going to Michigan before
he announced it to his team.

Any of those coaches will tell those guys anything they want to hear. For
example, Pete Carroll told Nick Perry that they are light at DE when they have 4 and 5 star guys waiting to play. It's all about getting them in the door.

One player is not going to make or break any team. Most top rated QB's have
been busts in recent times. Even 5 star running backs. Freaking Max Martin and Grady were 5 star recruits. Max transferred and got thrown off of Alabama and Grady is still trying to get back from his knee.

Back when the ESPN investigate OSU thing was going on. A person close to the situation leaked that both the AD and Tressel were going to resign. The AD did, so the information wasn’t' a 100% accurate. But I wonder how close that really was to coming true? I guess we will never know.